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dustydigger

Posted 2015-03-16 12:38 PM (#9899 - in reply to #9895)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'm 67. I think I told how I had been reading Yeats poetry,and on the day I got my adult ticket,age 13,Bradbury's Golden Apples of the Sun caught my eye,and I got that out,plus Burroughs Princess of Mars,and after that devoured the rather small SF collection. Sf was not very available to a young girl in a small English town at that time,but I had always loved fantasy. The Narnia books,E Nesbit,the King Arthur stories ( I still remember the awesome feeling when a hand comes out of the water to take back Excalibur) I also loved fairy stories and mythology. Not for me books about ponies,or school life or soppy romance novels! .
In our teens everything we read is new and fresh and exciting. No matter how well written a book is today,it hasnt got that frisson we got then,alas.I saw little of proper SF before I was 13,but do remember loving Out of the Silent Planet when I was about 12. What did make an impression as a kid was Dan Dare,Pilot of the Future,the cover story weekly in a garish boys' comic,The Eagle.. I loved the evil alien villain,the Mekon,ruler of Venus. whom Dan had to fight every week. The artwork was exciting,and a certain young budding writer called Arthur C Clarke checked out the science side. Checking out Google Images today I realised I had forgotten how Dan Dare was portrayed exactly like a WWII fighter pilot,including the normal officer's cap! I must assume this was my first real contact with SF,and I recall Dan with great affection. It has also come back to me that there was a radio version. I can still remember the portentous voice announcing ''Dan Dare! Pilot of the Future!''
Wow! Just checked up,and that serial ended when I was about 8. Never realised how far back my love of SF went.

pizzakarin

Posted 2015-03-16 2:28 PM (#9900 - in reply to #9897)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I looked through my 5 star books specifically for older SF and here's what I came up with:

The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury
The Big Time by Fritz Leiber
The Man Who Was Thursday by G K Chesterton

I'm having a hard time articulating it, but I think what those three have in common and what makes them resonate with me is a sense of humor about the absurdity of humanity.

As far as more recently published favorites:

Anathem by Neal Stephenson
Blindsight by Peter Watts
Old Man's War by John Scalzi

Of the three of those, I expect Blindsight to hold up the least well as it is the mostly likely to be knocked down by improved social theory (one of the things that I think a lot of 50s and 60s books fell to). I expect Old Man's War to hold up the best as it is mostly an adventure story, though the technological trappings may get outdated.

jwharris28

Posted 2015-03-16 3:42 PM (#9901 - in reply to #9900)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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pizzakarin - 2015-03-16 2:28 PM I looked through my 5 star books specifically for older SF and here's what I came up with: The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury The Big Time by Fritz Leiber The Man Who Was Thursday by G K Chesterton I'm having a hard time articulating it, but I think what those three have in common and what makes them resonate with me is a sense of humor about the absurdity of humanity. As far as more recently published favorites: Anathem by Neal Stephenson Blindsight by Peter Watts Old Man's War by John Scalzi Of the three of those, I expect Blindsight to hold up the least well as it is the mostly likely to be knocked down by improved social theory (one of the things that I think a lot of 50s and 60s books fell to). I expect Old Man's War to hold up the best as it is mostly an adventure story, though the technological trappings may get outdated.

If you like Old Man's War, you should try Starship Troopers, The Forever War, and Ender's Game. I think all military SF descends from Starship Troopers.

I've been thinking about Blindsight since one of my blog readers keeps recommend Peter Watts.

Of the newer books I've been very impressed with are Ready Player One, The Windup Girl, Little Brother, The Martian, The Hunger Games, Spin, and the Wake, Watch, Wonder trilogy.

Edited by jwharris28 2015-03-16 3:43 PM

Weesam

Posted 2015-03-16 4:03 PM (#9902 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I think I already said I'm 49, however I didn't start reading SF until my early 20's when a friend loaned me Isaac Asimov. I haven't looked back since. Books were expensive and hard to find where I was living at the time, and I haunted the one book shop in town who stocked only Asimov, Clarke, Silverberg and Heinlein. I read through all the Asimov's, then the Clarke's, then the Silverberg's, and was just starting on the Heinlein's when I moved to a country with more books!

Ready Player One, The Martian and Spin are some of my favourite recent reads as well.

illegible_scribble

Posted 2015-03-16 4:05 PM (#9903 - in reply to #9900)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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pizzakarin - 2015-03-16 2:28 PM

Of the three of those, I expect Blindsight to hold up the least well as it is the mostly likely to be knocked down by improved social theory (one of the things that I think a lot of 50s and 60s books fell to).

I'm curious -- why do you think that?

pizzakarin

Posted 2015-03-17 7:37 AM (#9904 - in reply to #9903)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Other than the super creepy spaceship/being (which is awesome and will hopefully never go out of style), a lot of the fun of this book hinges on following the main character's Chinese Box logic and believing in the type of sociopath that the commander/vampire is. I think that that's vulnerable to us finding out that that's not how brains work in these neurally atypical people and therefore becoming one of those books that was speculating interesting things at the time but feels dated fifty years later.

Of course it could go the other way and exactly what I feel will date it will make it feel prescient and fresh, especially if the science goes that way.

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-17 8:38 AM (#9905 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'm 43, but I feel like I have some grounding in 50s SF. For these early years, I haven't read too many books, but they mainly fall into two categories: books I read quite recently for the Retro Hugos and Hugos (Farmer in the Sky and the Foundation trilogy), and books I read in my formative years, which were in this omnibus, the St Michael book of Great Science Fiction Stories, published in 1982, and featuring 2001, The Demolished Man, Day of the Triffids and I, Robot. I wish I still had it! Day of the Triffids and Martian Chronicles were both televised in the early 80s, too.

Later on we'll be getting into PKD territory. I had a bit of a PKD phase in my youth, and I've read quite a lot of his work, but I can't really remember which ones I've read and which ones I haven't. Alfred Bester was another big personal favourite, but has rather less output.

Anyway, I finished Childhood's End last night. It makes an interesting companion to City.

SPOILERS FOLLOW

Both books feature the end of humanity, but City seems weirdly gloomy about what was actually not a bad result - most of us are living in paradise on Jupiter - where Childhood's End seems oddly upbeat about what seems like a catastrophe, with humanity subsumed into some kind of group mind.

END SPOILERS

I think CE was the most novel-like of the books I've read so far, even though it's still split into three parts, and one of them was sort of previously published. I've never particularly been a Clarke fan, and this one still has a lot of his usual flaws, but it held together pretty well and achieved what it set out to achieve. I don't think I was ever going to love it, but I can recognise why it's regarded as a classic.

I'm not really prepared for 1954, yet. I already own The Star Beast and, it turns out, The Forgotten Planet (which is included in the Baen book, Planets of Adventure), but I'd really like to read Caves of Steel, and also have a strange desire to investigate Trouble on Titan. (I've already read I Am Legend and Mission of Gravity.)

Edited by DrNefario 2015-03-17 8:40 AM

dustydigger

Posted 2015-03-17 1:26 PM (#9907 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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In 1953 Campbell produced The Black Star Passes fix-up novel of three adventures of some young, brilliant and adventurous scientists, but the original stories had been written back in 1930 when he was a 19 year old MIT engineering student, and he specifically wrote for highschool maths and science students - the geeks! The book is full of interminable indigestible (to me, anyway, without a science background) chunks of scientific explanations, the characters are interchangeable, only differentiated by their names, the dialogue is very dull, and all in all the book would not be worth bothering with except for the descriptions of the aliens, which are interesting in that Campbell at least makes the effort to show how their appearances were influenced by their environments. Apart from these gleams of interest the book was dull, stodgy and almost unreadable. I read it for the 1950s Defining Books challenge, and I am afraid that this is one that is only surviving because of Campbell's illustrious and influential editorial career, otherwise it is very slight

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-24 8:52 AM (#9930 - in reply to #9905)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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DrNefario - 2015-03-17 2:38 PM

I'm not really prepared for 1954, yet. I already own The Star Beast and, it turns out, The Forgotten Planet (which is included in the Baen book, Planets of Adventure), but I'd really like to read Caves of Steel, and also have a strange desire to investigate Trouble on Titan. (I've already read I Am Legend and Mission of Gravity.)

I've changed my mind about this, and decided to read The Forgotten Planet. I've got way too many unread books to be buying more when I already have 2 for 1954. I don't believe I've read any Murray Leinster before.

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-28 11:54 AM (#9946 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Well, The Forgotten Planet was forgettable. Not awful, but not special, either. A pulpy adventure with regressed primitive humans versus giant insects. Another fix-up, but the joins were pretty smooth. I think I just didn't feel very engaged in the drama.

I feel like these early 50s books are more approachable, because they are short and straightforward, but they aren't always living up to their promises, even when they aren't promising much.

Forgotten Planet wasn't really a positive choice, for me, so much as a book I happened to already own. The next four years are all first-choice books I'm actually looking forward to. But first I'm taking a month off SF&F.

jwharris28

Posted 2015-03-28 12:26 PM (#9947 - in reply to #9946)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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DrNefario - 2015-03-28 11:54 AM Well, The Forgotten Planet was forgettable. Not awful, but not special, either. A pulpy adventure with regressed primitive humans versus giant insects. Another fix-up, but the joins were pretty smooth. I think I just didn't feel very engaged in the drama. I feel like these early 50s books are more approachable, because they are short and straightforward, but they aren't always living up to their promises, even when they aren't promising much. Forgotten Planet wasn't really a positive choice, for me, so much as a book I happened to already own. The next four years are all first-choice books I'm actually looking forward to. But first I'm taking a month off SF&F.

I have fond memories of The Forgotten Planet from reading it as a kid. However, I expected if I reread it now, it might not appeal to the adult me. Have you read Hothouse by Brian Aldiss? It was called The Long Afternoon of Earth when it first was published, a title I like much better. I thought Hothouse is a superior take on what Forgotten Planet was about.

Edited by jwharris28 2015-03-28 12:26 PM

dustydigger

Posted 2015-03-29 11:12 AM (#9957 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Im about a quarter way through Forgotten Planet just now,and some of the premises were a bit annoying to say the least!. Many generations have passed since a space ship was stranded on a planet full of massive dangerous insects. The people are savages,and dont even know what a weapon is,living precariously by scavenging. They have almost lost the use of language,having only a ''few hundred labials''. No characterisation,just battles with insects that are not very engaging. All in all a bit lacklustre. Not as much fun as other Murray Leinsters I have read.

Weesam

Posted 2015-03-29 3:22 PM (#9965 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I am enjoying this challenge, and loving going back and reading some of the early works. There are some real gems to be found here. Without this challenge I probably would not have read many of these books, not because I didn't want to but because there is so little time and so many books. I've just finished Double Star by Heinlein, and I must say I really liked it a lot. Much more than Between Planets which I read earlier this month.

I am about to start on The Shrinking Man as my second choice for 1956. I read I Am Legend many years ago so I am looking forward to seeing what else Matheson has to offer.

dustydigger

Posted 2015-03-30 4:19 AM (#9968 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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1954 - I have read previously to the challenge 4/11 books of that year.
Isaac Asimov - Caves of Steel. i thoroughly enjoyed this first outing for Daneel Olivaw and Lige Baley. The privations in the aftermath of WWII show in the way the world is on the brink with a population of 8 billion,and the whole of society had to be regimented around feeding the people who have retreated to steel domes and fear the outside world. while the rest of mankind went out to colonise 30 planets. Engaging characters,and a mystery,rather perfunctory in its solving,but for me this book was a much more enjoyable read than the Foundation books.
Richard Matheson - I am Legend. Would you class this short but harrowing little book horror or SF? It would fit both,with its vampires or plagues,but mostly it is a study of lonliness. Poignant and so sad. The various film versions couldnt do it justice,because its not so much about the action,though there is plenty of that,but is about the internal sorrow ,depression and ,yes,boredom of his claustrophobic life. Excellent
Hal Clement - Mission of Gravity. Human scientists are intrigued by the massive planet Mesklin,which has an 18 minute day,rotating so rapidly that its equatorial diameter is more than double its polar diameter.So its gravity is variable,from a mere 3 gees at the equator to 700 gees at the polesIt has a methane/ammonia atmosphere,and an steep axis tilt that produces ferocious weather.The planet is totally inhospitable to humans (a 180 lb man would weigh 540 lbs at the equator,60 tons at the poles) so when an earth probe sent to the south pole fails to take off for its return with precious data about the mysteries of Mesklin gravity,the humans must enlist the help of a Mesklin sea captain,Barlennan,a trader,explorer,adventurer, to make the enormous,difficult and dangerous trek to the pole to bring back the data.....
Challenged by John W Campbell to devise a planet of variable gravity,Hal Clement with some help from a certain Isaac Asimov,painstakingly worked out the physics,chemistry and biology of Mesklin,and then used it to underpin an exciting adventure tale about Barlennan and his redoubtable crew.15 inches long,3 inches high,incredibly tough and strong physically,Barlennan is brave,resourceful,very intelligent,intellectually curious-and ambitious to learn as much as he can about the humans' science.He may look a bit like an earthly caterpillar,but Barlennan is cute.Its fun going on the journey with him,and though there is a great deal of hard science in this book,the plot and characters are enough to make it an enjoyable yarn as much as a scientific dossier about an amazing planet.
It is dated,of course.I was delighted to see a human engineer using a slide rule,using a wall projector to show their filmed material,but all in all a fun read as Clement manages the balance of science and story,something too many writers are unable to achieve.Highly recommended
Robert A Heinlein - Star Beast. Amusing fluff,one of RAHs juveniles,lightweight but enjoyable about a boy and his unusual ET pet.,whom the town wants to get rid of. Said beast turns out to be royalty and his people want him back. One interesting little point is that the world leader is a black African,which in 1954 segregated USA must have been a little startling!
I am unable to obtain most of the other books of this year,but will read Leinster's Forgotten Planet.

Weesam

Posted 2015-04-08 6:19 PM (#10083 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I've finished 1957 with a reading of The Midwich Cuckoos. My second Wyndham for this challenge and I must say I am loving his work. I shall seek out more.

About to start 1958 but keep changing my mind about which books to read. I have finally settled on Who? and A Case of Conscience.

Weesam

Posted 2015-04-13 4:14 PM (#10124 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Finished 1958. I have mixed feelings about A Case of Conscience. It started well, but then it all fell about half way through.

On the other hand, I loved Who?. I finished off A Case of Conscience yesterday evening and thought I'd just read a couple of chapters of Who?, but before I knew it I had finished. Not a long book, but well worth reading. And now I really must check out more Budrys. Why have I failed to read him before?

1959's selections will be Time Out of Joint and Dorsai.

Edited by Weesam 2015-04-13 4:17 PM

DrNefario

Posted 2015-04-14 6:35 AM (#10126 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'd better start thinking about setting up the 60s challenge.

jwharris28

Posted 2015-04-14 6:47 AM (#10127 - in reply to #10126)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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DrNefario - 2015-04-14 6:35 AM I'd better start thinking about setting up the 60s challenge.

Then I need to get on the stick, because I'm still back in 1954.

DrNefario

Posted 2015-04-14 11:21 AM (#10128 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'm only half way through the 50s myself, but I have made a giant spreadsheet to plot my reading all the way through to 1999, and I do already have the 60s covered, although there are a few I'd like to replace.

Weesam

Posted 2015-04-14 4:12 PM (#10131 - in reply to #10126)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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DrNefario - 2015-04-14 11:35 PM
I'd better start thinking about setting up the 60s challenge.

Don't hurry to set it up on my account. I'm happy to wait to embark on the 60's until some others get to the end of the current challenge. I have plenty of other challenges to focus on in the meantime.

dustydigger

Posted 2015-04-23 5:09 AM (#10279 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I didnt want to get too far ahead of the majority so I have added some extra books to the list to make 20,and will probably complete them in May. Its a fun challenge,and I have read lots of new books and authors. Too bad there wont be so many free books online when we come to the 60s. I will probably only be able to do a minimum number of books there,as the majority are not available in my library system,and I cant afford to buy many books. We'll see.

jwharris28

Posted 2015-04-23 8:22 AM (#10281 - in reply to #10279)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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dustydigger - 2015-04-23 5:09 AM I didnt want to get too far ahead of the majority so I have added some extra books to the list to make 20,and will probably complete them in May. Its a fun challenge,and I have read lots of new books and authors. Too bad there wont be so many free books online when we come to the 60s. I will probably only be able to do a minimum number of books there,as the majority are not available in my library system,and I cant afford to buy many books. We'll see.

It disturbs me that libraries don't carry these books. What kind of classics must they be if libraries don't carry them? When I go to used bookstores, or order used books from ABEBooks, quite often I end up buying library discards. That bugs me. I want libraries to be repositories of knowledge, not warehouses for free books that are in the most demand.

Many of the books on these lists are remembered by hardcore SF fans, but not by our culture in general.

dustydigger

Posted 2015-04-24 3:05 AM (#10287 - in reply to #10281)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I agree,Jim,in spades.The peoplestruggling to save books in Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 would be in despair. No need to burn books,just let them get tatty and dont replace them! lol. We are going through a crisis for libraries here in UK,as all local government scrambles to find ways to implement national government austerity cuts. . Two years ago,for instance,the annual book budget for my library system,of 39 branches,was down from 6 million to r4.25 million.I dont know the figure for last year,but it must be even less. Where once almost every branch would get at least one,usually two or three copies of a title,now,apart from the blockbuster headline authors,we are lucky to get a handful of copies shared out among all the branches. Now apart from the big names,to save money they get us paperbacks,which fall apart quickly and there is little hope of replacement.The public have a voracious appetite for new books,so why waste what little money there is on some 60 year old pulpy trashy book about bug-eyed monsters,as many still view SF. I cant believe that in our system there isnt one copy of Heinlein's Starship Troopers. They have a single copy of about 10 of his books in the county reserve stacks,and believe me its like pulling teeth to get at them. I put in a request for Fred Hoyle's The Black Cloud,and am still waiting 9 mths later.
My dream is that someone like SF Gateway,the Gollancz project to publish old SF books,could set up something like Overdrive,a lending library for their books.For 50 cents you could borrow any of their titles, like a ebook from the local library. I get so frustrated when I see their tantalising lists of old books. Too pricey to buy,but a type of library loan would be wonderful Any millionaires lurking around here to set up something like that?I would be their first member!

Mind you ,its not just SF suffering. If anything,its even worse trying to locate old crime fiction. My library system has no Rex Stout,Ellery Queen, and the situation is pretty dire really for anythingbbefore 1990. I have a list of 100 famous crime novels and only 16 of them are available in the library - and I've already read those

Edited by dustydigger 2015-04-24 3:23 AM

illegible_scribble

Posted 2015-04-24 4:43 AM (#10290 - in reply to #10281)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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jwharris28 - 2015-04-24 1:22 AM

Many of the books on these lists are remembered by hardcore SF fans, but not by our culture in general.

In one of Connie Willis' books, Bellwether, her protagonist discovers from the local librarian that when a book is not checked out within x amount of time, it is deaccessioned. The main character is horrified by this, and proceeds to pull numerous of her "must-have" books every time she goes to the library, and checks them out -- not to read them again, but to ensure that they are retained in the library's collection.

I have to confess that for the last few years, I have been doing the same thing: when I check out books I want to read, I also check out books I've read which I perceive to be "must-have" books, just so the library's records show that someone is checking them out, and they are retained.

Weesam

Posted 2015-04-24 5:02 AM (#10291 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Many, many years ago, back in those pre-computer days, library books had those little cards in the back that were stamped every time someone took one out (or, at least they did here in NZ). I would always go looking for the books that hadn't had their cards stamped in quite a while, and take those ones out. Mostly because I felt sorry for the book that no one loved it! Of course, it probably helped retain that book in the library system for a little longer. An added bonus.

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