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China Mieville
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Emil
Posted 2012-03-22 8:45 AM (#3123)
Subject: China Mieville



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		Apart from Un Lun Dun and Embassytown (which is lying next to my notebook this very instant) I've read everything else from him. Le Guin states that it's a joy to see a young author "bringing the craft of science fiction out of the backwaters where it's been caught lately". Everything I've read so far blew me away - yes, Kraken too, which I found to be one of the most refreshing novels I've ever read.

How good is he really?
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Rhondak101
Posted 2012-03-22 6:47 PM (#3125 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: SC, USA		Emil,
I have not decided yet. I loved The City and the City. It was the book that brought me back to FandSF in a serious way. After that I read King Rat, which I enjoyed. I recently read Un Lun Dun and found it a refreshing YA novel.

I finished Perdido Street Station sometime in the last month and was underwhelmed. I wanted to like it (I had been excited to read it, saving it as a Spring Break treat), but I felt something was off in the pacing (I didn't care to keep reading until around page 250) and the prose seemed very bloated. I know I was supposed to care about the lavish descriptions of a multicultural metropolis, but I really didn't .
I have Embassytown and will read it next. I will try The Scar after it, but if I experience it the way that I did Perdido Street, I probably will not read the Iron Council.
I'd love to hear what you have to say.
Rhonda
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Emil
Posted 2012-03-23 1:36 AM (#3126 - in reply to #3125)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		Thanks @Rhonda. I think you summed it up nicely, particularly about Perido Street Station. I did like the book a lot, mainly I think because of it's inventiveness and fresh approach to fantasy. At the time I avoided the padded series and was much more a hard sf snob than now. Mieville came highly recommended via a friend (who doesn't like Tolkien, may I add). I found both King Rat and Perido refreshing. The same with The City & The City, much more streamlined than any of his other works and sparer prose, and I'm enjoying what I've read so far from Embassytown.

As time goes by I can't help but wonder about Mielville's genius, and what makes him so - dare I say - unique. I struggled through Kraken, came close to abandoning it a few times, but did finish it. Now, after soaking it up over time, I'm finding myself haunted by it, almost to the point of believing that it may just be his best book yet. It's completely different to anything else he has written. Perido Street felt like it had no structure to it and the plot was almost haphazard. I now think of it more as horror than fantasy. I guess horror and baroque fantasy are closely related. From what I understand The Scar is the more thorough and complete novel in terms of structure and plot, but I still need to read it. Iron Council appears very popular among fans, but less among the literary critics. After reading The City & The City I came close to comparing Mielville to Pynchon. And there is a certain Melville quality to Mieville as well. Kraken certainly exemplified this. Wow, I managed not to compare him to Gene Wolfe :-) The Lovecraft influence is most assuredly present.

I guess it's sufficient to say that there is a genius in Mielville and to fully discover and appreciate it, we need to continue reading him. He is still maturing, and I predict he will, like the old masters such as Silverberg, PKD and Asimov, become a prolific writer. So far the promise of quality is undeniable, don't you think? Le Guin reckons he may very well win the Booker sometime.
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Engelbrecht
Posted 2012-03-23 8:52 AM (#3127 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: RE: China Mieville



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I'm somewhat ambivalent about Mieville - I loved Perdido Street Station when it came out, but he's never come close to matching it since (although Kraken was very good).  Which may not be entirely fair, since that initial burst of creativity and freshness just isn't something that can really be recreated - once you've been exposed to an authors style, that author can't surprise and delight you in subsequent works as he/she did originally.  For me, most of Mieville's appeal is his style and his endless imagination.  He's an undisciplined author who doesn't particularly concern himself with characterization or even plot. His attempts at more rigorous fiction deprive him of his strengths, with The City and the City being an undeserving award winner and Embassytown being an unrewarding chore.

I've read all eight of his novels and will continue to read him, but, after thirteen years of novel-writing, I'm not sure how much room for growth and development he has in him.

 

 

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Rhondak101
Posted 2012-03-23 1:45 PM (#3133 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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As I was reading Perdido Street Station, I was talking about it to friend who reads a lot, but does not read much FandSF. After a few conversations, I came to the conclusion that Perdido Street Station is quite "literary" in that it is full of flawed characters who I did not really like very much. I talked to her about the fact that I accept this as almost status quo in modern literature, Roth, Bellow, McEwan etc. but not in a fantasy novel. I began to wonder if I was displaying a kind of reverse snobbery--"don't make my genre fiction too complex;" or "give me some simply drawn good and evil, don't challenge me with shades of gray." So.. I'm really wondering if the problem was me.

On the other hand, I thought that King Rat was a great example of a fantasy bildungsroman and that The City and The City hit the right note between American hard-boiled and British police procedural. I respect Mieville's willingness to take on genres and sub-genres as well as big ideas.
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hihik
Posted 2012-03-25 4:44 PM (#3135 - in reply to #3133)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Boston, MA		didn't make it through perdido. i think, in order to like it you have to be into that genre - strange worlds, weird creatures, mysterious mysteries i was .. bored. gave up on mielville and on modern sf/f novels in general.
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gallyangel
Posted 2012-04-02 2:52 AM (#3160 - in reply to #3135)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: The Wilds of Washington		I yelled at The City and the City. That says something. He's on the list to pay attention to now, but not yet on the "read immediately" list. Time will tell.
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Emil
Posted 2012-04-02 6:39 AM (#3161 - in reply to #3160)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		Christopher Priest reckons he underachieves.
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Mattastrophic
Posted 2012-04-07 1:38 AM (#3168 - in reply to #3161)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Louisville, Ky		I've only read Embassytown, which I found to be rewarding in terms of its imaginative speculation on language and cognition (which isn't surprising considering I study English/Rhetoric and Composition), but the style and structure made me feel kind of disembodied: lots of heavy exposition with islands of dramatized, character driven scenes. It felt kind of like watching a really cool and deep movie while a bit doped up on NyQuil; I was satisfied by the experience in the end but it seemed kind of surreal at the time. I'm thinking about The City and The City next since it seems more manageable than Perdido Street Station and since I've read the The Windup Girl (the other book it shared the Hugo with). I'm also still undecided about him, so we'll see.

@Gallyangel: what made you yell at the City and the City?
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natpowers
Posted 2012-05-04 9:33 AM (#3206 - in reply to #3160)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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gallyangel - 2012-04-02 2:52 AM

I yelled at The City and the City.


Funny, I did the same!

I'm also a little unsure of Mieville. Mieville's strengths include his ability to mesh genres marvelously, while respectfully riffing off other authors. He's very much a devotee of the New Wave, if you ask me...I get hints of Ballard and Delany in his work, not to mention M John Harrison and Peake, both of whom are obvious influences. But The City and The City, and especially Embassytown, left me a little angry. Because the premises of both novels were so brilliant, and yet their treatment felt half-hearted, after the initial thrill of the concepts got over.

Mieville's one primary flaw is his lackluster, and sometimes absolutely non-existent, characterization.

Edited by natpowers 2012-05-04 9:36 AM
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Emil
Posted 2012-05-20 2:33 AM (#3220 - in reply to #3206)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		If I was at first a little unsure about Mieville, The Scar has now solidified his enigmatic brilliance to me. From all that I've read, it is to me the more complete, tight and fresh novel in his already impressive canon. I could not wait to finish it, and when I did, I felt some remorse for doing so.

NOTE TO DAVE: you need to add King Rat to complete the Mieville collection!!!

Scar surpasses Perdido Street Station, even The City and The City, which I now came to accept promised so much, but did not deliver all that it could. I also have new-found respect and fondness for The Kraken - Mieville's use of mythic back-story is simply magnificent and in both Kraken and Scar he's apt at orchestrating a riveting narrative. Interestingly, many commentators find these two novels a tad long. I never for one second agreed with them and felt a slight sense of loss when turning their final pages.

I also respectfully disagree with @natpowers. Certainly The City and The City may well suffer from a lack of human characterization, but is aptly overshadowed by the main character, the cities themselves. And in The Scar, Mieville certainly succeeds in creating a cast of characters well worth following, against the truly absorbing and richly imagined backdrop of Armada. I'm ow onto Iron Council, and am well prepared for the apparent disappointment it represents following Perido Street and Scar.

On my collectors bookshelf, to the right of my ever expanding Gene Wolfe collection, Mieville has taken residence.
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dustydigger
Posted 2012-05-31 1:21 PM (#3273 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: UK		I have only read Kraken,and I cant make my mind up about it.Some very intriguing scenes and characters,but all the way through I felt Mieville was on the brink of some brilliant revelation,would soon illuminate the darkness,but no ,the book would fall back into being an irritating enigma.Does being obscure really mean a work is one of genius?I will be staying away from Mieville for the foreseeable future. too slow,heavy and portentous for my tastes.

Edited by dustydigger 2012-05-31 1:23 PM
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Emil
Posted 2012-06-12 1:40 AM (#3383 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Grootfontein, Namibia		Kraken did that to me as well. I wonder if he does not write like that on purpose. Perhaps he is saving himself
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theman
Posted 2012-09-07 10:38 AM (#4114 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: RE: China Mieville



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Location: Virginia		He is my favorite author, but I have a hard time pinning down why. I read Perdido when it came out and ever since then I have ran to the bookstore for every new release. The worlds he creates are rich with vivid details. His proclivity to making up words and assuming the reader is familiar with the term have left me initially confused at times. There is always enough context, though, for my imagination to fill in the blanks, lending the fiction an amorphous quality. Sometimes the prose gets thick and I have to read slower or backtrack to catch something I missed, but I am always rewarded by these extra efforts. All of these observations, I suppose, could be praise or criticism depending on the reader's patience or expectations of how a writer should write.

I wonder if he will become exhausted of ideas. Each novel has been different in subject matter, and sometimes in style and technique, as well: King Rat (horror, Gaimanesque world behind the real world), Perdido Street Station (i don't know, to be honest, maybe if Lovecraft wrote a DnD campaign), Scar (sea adventure), Iron Council (western), Kraken (absurdist fantasy), City and the City (detective noir), Embassytown (galactic science fiction), Railsea (dying earth dystopic steampunk). I read that he is trying to write in every genre, but, I am not sure how many genres are left. Will he do high fantasy? dip into zombies? alternative history? Or maybe he will once again combine too many genre elements into a brand new wierd world.
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Badseedgirl
Posted 2013-07-06 6:28 PM (#5385 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: RE: China Mieville



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Location: Middle TN, USA		Now I have to admit that I have not read any of his novels as yet. Clearly he is the darling of the awards committees, and this makes me a little scared of him. So for all you people out there who have read his work, what book would you recommend I read as the best example of his work. Baring in mind I have stated for the record that I really love to read bad sci-fi and horror (Not Twilight bad, but close!)
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theman
Posted 2013-07-06 8:22 PM (#5387 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Virginia		A starter Mieville for someone who loves to read "really bad sci-fi and horror" would be... hmmm. Maybe King Rat or The City and the City. King Rat is closer to a horror and City is more a detective story. They are more accessible in that the writing is more direct, fewer descriptive flourishes and therefore easier to read. I've given both of these to non-hardcore genre readers, and both enjoyed these books.

Now, my favourite works are Perdido Street Station and the Scar, but the four different people (two for PSS and two for Scar) I've given these books to have given them back to me telling me that they are too hard, which disappointed me each time, since I consider them some of the best books I've ever read. Mieville demands a lot from your imagination, but he is not for everyone.
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pauljames
Posted 2013-07-07 4:38 AM (#5396 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: scotland		I have only read Perdido Street Station and The City and The City. I read Perdido first and was blown away by it, the sheer creativity and imagination, what fun to read. However I was disappointed by The City and The City, this is a fantastic story, but my expectations after reading Perdido were big.

I did enjoy both these novels but they are so different. I am hoping that the next I read will be more similar to Perdido. I am undecided which one to read next.
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DrNefario
Posted 2013-07-08 7:35 AM (#5399 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: UK		Other way around for me. I found Perdido Street Station a bit too stodgy, but very much liked City & the City and Embassytown.

Someone recently pointed out that PSS owes a debt to the Gormenghast series, and I can see that. My reaction was about the same.
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dustydigger
Posted 2013-07-15 3:53 PM (#5435 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: UK		Finished Mieville's Embassytown today with a sigh of relief.Not my cup of tea at all.In my SF reading I look for characters,plot,setting,with style as a distant runner up.As long as the style is competent,workmanlike and unobtrusive,thats enough for me.Unfortunately,Mieville reverses the order totally as far as I can see.He has all this ornate complicated convoluted writing.Then there is the setting,admittedly striking and unusual.Without the language(ouch,pun unintended)the plot is rather weak and flimsy.And characterisation is barely there.I dragged through this for ages for not a lot of satisfaction.No more Mieville for a while.Perdido Street Station and perhaps some of his YA next year,but not for a long time! lol
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francesashton
Posted 2013-10-06 11:10 AM (#5642 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Cheshire, England		I've recently started reading this author as Un Lun Dun is on the Locus Award list (which I'm attempting to finish up). I really enjoyed that and I've started The City and The City but I'm finding it lacking. I like the idea but I do find the writing style difficult. For instance I had to do quite a few double takes and re-reads to realise that actually the guy is talking about two cities (or is it 3) overlaid and it's not obvious which city he's talking about at any one time, so I find it frustrating simply because he seems to lack an easy way of explaining what the heck is going on - perfectly, and succinctly, described by dustydigger in the post above this :-). So at the moment, I'm sticking with it but in half-hour chunks and his other books will probably be on the to-read pile only if they come cheap in a charity shop!
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Badseedgirl
Posted 2013-10-06 1:37 PM (#5643 - in reply to #5642)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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francesashton - 2013-10-06 11:10 AM

I've recently started reading this author as Un Lun Dun is on the Locus Award list (which I'm attempting to finish up). I really enjoyed that and I've started The City and The City but I'm finding it lacking. I like the idea but I do find the writing style difficult. For instance I had to do quite a few double takes and re-reads to realise that actually the guy is talking about two cities (or is it 3) overlaid and it's not obvious which city he's talking about at any one time, so I find it frustrating simply because he seems to lack an easy way of explaining what the heck is going on - perfectly, and succinctly, described by dustydigger in the post above this :-). So at the moment, I'm sticking with it but in half-hour chunks and his other books will probably be on the to-read pile only if they come cheap in a charity shop!


If you think it is hard to read try listening to it on audiobook while your driving. I returned the audiobook and checked out the paper version because I was on chapter 8 and except for knowing a girl was dead, I had NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON!! It is killing me because the idea is so good. I am going to try to read it on paper and see if that helps, but from what you have written I do not hold out much hope!
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gallyangel
Posted 2013-10-06 2:30 PM (#5644 - in reply to #5643)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: The Wilds of Washington		I think that once I understood that both cities were the same city, or all three!, and that the people selectively saw them, learned through socialization, I got it. That was a light bulb moment. And then it was like, how stupid are these people? and why hasn't someone else just took them over in the past? This sort of thing would've made them so vulnerable to invasion, especially in that part of the world. An original idea, but very nasty when you really start thinking about the power and stupidity of human social structures.
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francesashton
Posted 2013-10-07 1:18 PM (#5646 - in reply to #3123)
Subject: Re: China Mieville



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Location: Cheshire, England		I was just reading the Wikipedia section on China's work and apparently someone did a stage adaptation of The City... Now that would be intriguing to watch, especially to see how they manage to get over the act of unseeing.
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